Curse

Dark Saviour · Mar 11, 2011, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I think that what would make much more probable for people to PUG would be being able to have VOIP.

Universal voice chat would help, for me at least, but more for the point of socialization while playing than anything else.

That said, the party system itself is my biggest obstacle to pugging... I don't like a system that necessitates I do nothing but stand around and wait until my team is filled. A system that allows me to start playing and let the team form while doing so is much prefered. Unfortunately, GW doesn't really lend itself to this. :-\

Krill · Mar 11, 2011, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

What was different? I started with just Proph and completed it with hench, without runs, pre hench update. Did flagging actually make that much difference? Not disputing, just curious why so much harder.

The AI skill usage was dumber, no flagging, power creep in skills the henchmen have (many skills were much worse) and huge power creep in the skills a player can bring. Also, in areas with Mursaat the henchmen were subject to full spectral agony which would quickly overwhelm the monk henches. When you compare the old Alesia & Lina to a more contemporary PvE backline of a nec rit and ER prot hero the difference is monumental.

In short some missions and difficult areas had to be done with players and even then there was a high degree of failure. Henchmen were only for questing and the very desperate.

Wenspire · Mar 11, 2011, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Don't forget only having alesia and no lina when we first got to the crystal desert. That was harsh...

chuckles79 · Mar 11, 2011, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I'd really like to see a link to the direct Z quest locations from EB. Rather than go to the individual travel agent it would be awesome if there was a Zaishen travel agent who could take you to the vq, zm, and zb outposts and/or closest location to them.
That would speed up PuGing and give people increased incentive to form the PuG at EB and not at the closest post.

Why? · Mar 11, 2011, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

The AI skill usage was dumber, no flagging, power creep in skills the henchmen have (many skills were much worse) and huge power creep in the skills a player can bring. Also, in areas with Mursaat the henchmen were subject to full spectral agony which would quickly overwhelm the monk henches. When you compare the old Alesia & Lina to a more contemporary PvE backline of a nec rit and ER prot hero the difference is monumental.

In short some missions and difficult areas had to be done with players and even then there was a high degree of failure. Henchmen were only for questing and the very desperate.

While some of what you said is true, people still chose to play h/h. And they completed the game that way. It was harder, but nowhere near the impossibility you make it out to be. And what it did do, was force people to learn more about the game's mechanics, how the ai reacted, how patrols worked, etc. You learn a ton more about everything just doing it yourself then you do when you play with others.

In reality, by the time factions came out, there was a growing dedicated bunch of players who chose to play the game alone.

And even now the end game areas of Prophecies are not the walk in the park some make them out to be. There are some players that are just flat out bad no matter what. I mean i can beat them all with just henchies, yet there are still people you try to help out in groups, and they just don't get it at all.

GrimWizard · Mar 11, 2011, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasai

Being forced to group is declining in popularity throughout the entire industry. You cannot blame other people for simply making a gamestyle choice. Gaming is more and more geared to the casual player, and the bulk of those seem to prefer a solo option, for many reasons.

Except an MMO by it's very design is not for the casual gamers. There are already tons of games out there that cater to the casual gamer. There are no lack of games for them, but I can't blame Anet for wanting to encourage that crowd to play GW, but in doing so they have completely ignored the other side of the coin. Anet jumped through hoops to improve henchmen skill bars and AI controls, they gave us heros and now this update. What did they do to help PUGs? A party search window... I see a lack of balance there.

Skyy High · Mar 12, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrimWizard

Except an MMO by it's very design is not for the casual gamers.

B-b-b-b-b-bulls***!

GW, by its [sic] very design, is for casual gamers. Can only play for a few hours a week? That's fine, once you hit max level and grab a few elites, your character will be just as powerful as someone who's been playing for 10000 hours. PvE skills threw that away to some extent, but it doesn't take many ranks in any title track for the skills to be almost as good as someone who has max rank, thankfully.

Casual != bad. Casual = time limited. There's no reason an MMO without a sub fee should have huge, required timesinks to keep you playing, so there's no reason an MMO without a sub fee should be unfriendly to casual players.

Two other things:
1) Both casual and hardcore players PUG, and both use H/H. I'd wager that, proportionally, more hardcore players use heroes, so I have no idea why the two have been conflated here. Supporting solo options != "pandering to casuals".
2) Embark Beach was supposed to be the (huge) bone thrown to the PUG crowd. We see how much that's helped.

UnChosen · Mar 12, 2011, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

2) Embark Beach was supposed to be the (huge) bone thrown to the PUG crowd. We see how much that's helped.

Embark Beach is more like a pot of bone ash more than a huge bone.

EVERYONE knew it was going to fail before it was implemented, especially after hearing about 7 heroes in the same update. Even before EB went live I thought it was going to help the solo players even more...and I was correct. Right now it just became a place for soloers to avoid having to see those horrible people in GToB.

Quote:

1) Both casual and hardcore players PUG, and both use H/H. I'd wager that, proportionally, more hardcore players use heroes, so I have no idea why the two have been conflated here. Supporting solo options != "pandering to casuals".

Hardcore players are speed clearing elite areas with guild groups or friends. The key point is that all the update they've done to improve H/h had all been significantly effective...while all the update they've done for pugs were all marginal.

How hard can it be to just copy the party drop bonus idea from other MMO and be done with it?

pingu666 · Mar 12, 2011, 12:39 AM // 00:39

its not really worked out much :x
couple of my ideas, possibly shrink the npc distances so there closer together

include toa and its mirrors

a jump to dungeon entrance would be great, and make dungeons slightly less tedious

skill trainer, if it was possible to have a trainer which showed core skills, or idealy skills from all campaigns, maybe section it off like in chanty of secrets?

if people quiting/getting disconnected where replaced by a hench that would be great

Lodar Aric · Mar 26, 2011, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Well it's been in the game now for a while so what are people's feelings about Embark Beach?

I've spent some time there and have hardly seen any 'LFG/LFP for missions', i've seen a few groups trying to form to do the Zaishen Vanquish but not many.

T1Cybernetic · Mar 26, 2011, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I like many others love the idea but I think it's too little too late, And with 7 hero parties available, Grouping is a very distant memory to some including myself so Embark Beach is not the BIG hit it could once have been.

That being said it is still a great addition to the game

Just a little bit late.

Dzjudz · Mar 26, 2011, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Yeah it's usually 7 heroes or guildies. The few moments I actually PuG a group is usually made in the specific outpost, not Embark Beach. Only reason Embark is used is to get Zaishen Vanquish :s.

wilebill · Mar 26, 2011, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Embark Beach could support PUGs or Guild groups better if quest rewards were doubled for groups not including heroes or hench. No idea how hard that would be to program.

To be blunt about it, going PUG is second best for most of us. We are not going to group with other players without some incentive. Better triple those rewards!

SongOf · Mar 26, 2011, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Good effort, but it failed.

Anet please read this carefully:
A LOT of players go to Greater Temple of Balthazar during their down time, even just to chat or organize inventory. 'Close' GToB (make accessible by NPC only, not map) to force people into Embark Beach- which makes more sense because it has every merchant related NPC anyway. This will at least expose more people looking for something to do to those that would like help.

Twysted Troll · Mar 26, 2011, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I understand that some people prefer to pug... though i have to say most my pugging experiences have been less than enjoyable.

Those who champion Pugs should also think about immature players, annoying behaviour, rage quits, afkers, i lost count of how many pugs dissolved in the good old days when Thunderhead was a challenge, or the ignorant behaviour of individuals that would race ahead in Fow or UW just to cause party wipes.

I tried both pugs and H/H ... completed Proph with H/H because i did nt have the time needed to stand around and wait for a party to form only for people to afk or quit ...time after time ...

i will say i met a few really nice people who were added to my friends list and we would get together and really have fun but those people were few and far between, i was happy with the advent of heroes and since nightfall i play 90% of the time on my own....

i feel sorry for people who i see standing around trying to find DECENT Pugs like i used to... i get my heroes together go do the mish/ vanq or whaterver and when i go back i still see those people standing looking for Pugs ...

Pugging can be fun ... but most of the time its just a pain ....

Bellatrixa · Mar 26, 2011, 02:40 PM // 14:40

I like Embark.

I can make all my cons in one outpost.

Just sayin ^_^

Lasai · Mar 26, 2011, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellatrixa

I like Embark.

I can make all my cons in one outpost.

Just sayin ^_^

that, and, I can set up everything while seeing PvE skills only, unlike my GH or GToB.

Lasai · Mar 26, 2011, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by wilebill

Embark Beach could support PUGs or Guild groups better if quest rewards were doubled for groups not including heroes or hench. No idea how hard that would be to program.

To be blunt about it, going PUG is second best for most of us. We are not going to group with other players without some incentive. Better triple those rewards!

Oh? And what if 4 friends got together and decided to go with heroes filling out the group.. or 6.. or 7.

Enhanced rewards for "special" groups is a huge can of worms.

Subsidizing a model that is no longer popular or attractive sounds like a government program to me.

enter_the_zone · Mar 26, 2011, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellatrixa

I like Embark.

I can make all my cons in one outpost.

Just sayin ^_^

That is, by far, the best part of EB.

Don Zardeone · Mar 26, 2011, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I made some dance parties on the boat... But then I start singing Cher and everyone disappears